Monday, December 7, 2009

Afghanistan needs the U.S.

22 comments:

PETER said...

alright mate!
glad your with us!(aff)
i stoped listening for 10 years after he died cos i was so upset.
your site was one of the main things to get me back into it.
thanks old chap
freakypete.
(check out a russian film called
9th company)

PETER said...

ps.
we lost our 100th boy this year there today. it upset me. he was 23
an i.e.d. got him. they dont even have hard skins or medivac.
we uk troops have been fighting there for years
even alexander the great couldnt take it
but now we have to because if we pull out we leave it to the taliban. is there the political will to do what it takes?
obama promised to pull out after 18months. might as well have told them they have won!
anyway as i said to you a year ago, the afgans are a brave and noble people but will not be dictated to ... would you?
if we're gonna do it weve got to do it right not half hearted so we can control the ground for oil pipelines.
first earth. hearts and minds.

Zoooma said...

Oil pipelines? I've gotta have faith that that's never being discussed when it comes to Afghanistan. Securing that nation is very much about whether or not Muslim extremists have a place to freely call home or not... just like pre-9/11.

Obama may have said 18 months but others have made it clear that that's conditional. If the Taliban is still in a position to retake the country as a whole, the U.S. ain't just gonna up and leave. "See ya later, Afghanistan. Good luck." Anyone who thinks in such a way is not seeing the danger involved if that happens. It will not happen. It better not.

Unemployment and the fiscal destruction of America's economy are such important matters right now but national security is also a concern. A majority of Americans will always remember the horror of 9/11, as well as the terrorist attacks that've taken place in the U.K. and Spain and elsewhere. That majority will not let our President get away with allowing us to be more vulnerable to another terrorist attack. If we leave and the Taliban regains control of Afghanistan, Americans will see that and it won't be something a majority of us will be smiling about.

Obama's popularity has been steadily declining -- it just tied for the lowest of any President in the last like 85 years (at this point in someone's first term... and no, that lowest was not George W.) The drop in popularity can be attributed, in large part, to the out-of-control spending that's seemingly not really benefiting the citizens of this nation who's taxes pay for the spending, the out of control escalation of our national debt, the tremendously unwanted government take-over of healthcare, and mostly to our double digit unemployment which is not quickly reversing. Obama has time to turn things around and we all hope he does. If things don't get much better in the next few years, leaving Afghanistan to fall to the Taliban would be one more issue which would prevent Obama from getting re-elected in 2012.

Of course no one ever wants to see our men and women in uniform die. But what about the 25 million citizens of Afghanistan? Aren't they human beings just like you and me? Don't they deserve to live without fear from the Taliban in control of the government? We wouldn't want to live in fear like that... why should we let others? No one wants war. Without it, unfortunately, some things in this world would be a lot worse than they are.

Anonymous said...

"That majority will not let our President get away with allowing" - exactly, what is that majority going to do to accomplish that?

"But what about the 25 million citizens of Afghanistan? Aren't they human beings just like you and me? Don't they deserve..." - WHY is this any concern for the U.S.? Does it ever occur to you that the U.S. is involved in shit all over the world, in which, that just maybe, they have no business? Or, is it "business" that drives this interference?

PETER said...

couldnt agree more!

Anonymous said...

(Add to my previous post)

"On Tuesday, Obama showed neither courage nor strength but the worst kind of imperial arrogance. He asserted America’s right to go into a deeply impoverished country that - from Alexander the Great to the USSR to today - has made clear to the world’s empires that it wants to be left the hell alone."

Anonymous said...

Zoooma and Peter,

Clarification - I am an America, and I feel fortunate to be, but I also truly believe that the people running the U.S. government have not acted in the best interest of MOST of the U.S. citizens for quite some time. (There has been NO "We the People" since Woodrow Wilson sold out to Aldrich/Warburg/Morgan, etc. - The Federal Reserve Act.)

Zoooma said...

Why are the citizens of Afghanistan any concern of the U.S.? BECAUSE THEY'RE HUMAN BEINGS!!!!!!!!

I'm proud to be an American but I am not necessarily an American first in every single aspect of my life. I don't believe in that. American lives are no more valuable than Afghans or Zimbabweans or anyone in between who shares this planet with us. I care about the human rights and the suffering of all regardless of where on Earth they live. Issues such as children who have to pick through a garbage dump for their daily meal or women having the right to vote or even walk down the street without a male family member escort, they are issues that I care about maybe more than any issue within our very own borders. Selfishly, the U.S. would be better off if world poverty and human rights conditions improve where they need improving the most so why not help improve those conditions in such places as Afghanistan?

What will a majority of Americans do if Obama leaves Afghanistan to suffer? Not much except raise their voices, let the President know how they feel, possibly vote him out of office and vote in politicians who will care more for the suffering and rights of others as well as the security of America.

Again -- if the Taliban takes over Afghanistan, that land will regress 100 years and become a haven for al-Qaeda. Those in New York and London and Madrid and Paris and elsewhere will automatically become more vulnerable. That's not how I want the U.S. to be.

We can't just sit back and wait for another attack to happen and try our best to defend against it beforehand.

Zoooma said...

It's not "imperial arrogance" to go out beyond ones own borders to help people. Perhaps the world should ignore deeply impoverished nations and let them suffer?

And in today's world, staying safe doesn't mean standing guard at ones own borders without destroying threats that do exist. I am not equating Muslim extremism to Nazism but but concerning Hitler in WWII, what if we just kept all our soldiers at home and stood guard?

Anonymous said...

"It's not "imperial arrogance" to go out beyond ones own borders to help people." - of course that should be true, but is "to help people" the REAL motivation? To help (BIG oil, weapons manufacturers, military contractors, mostly) corporations?

Personally, I also question the significance if not validity of "threats that do exist". But, we've previously established that we disagree on this point.

Zoooma said...

A) It doesn't necessarily matter if it's the real motivation or not because whatever the real motivation is, the result is people are being helped in the long run... hopefully. When the U.S. is involved, war isn't waged to hurt people and leave it at that. The bigger goal is to help many in need of a better life.

B) There you go again with that conspiracy stuff -- war being fought in the name of big oil and so corporations can make money.

Listen, take a really heavy frying pan, cast iron if you've got one, and whack yourself in the head with it as hard as you can. Just do something to knock some sense into yourself. Men puffing Cuban cigars and sipping brandy in board rooms don't sit around saying, "Alright, let's get a war started so we can put a few extra billion dollars in our pockets."

Anonymous said...

Of course, you have to be correct - ALL U.S. interference/wars around the world are for to help people, humanitarian assistance, to spread the seeds of democracy, and mostly, the bigger goal is to help many in need of a better life.

Further evidence that there's what people want to hear, there's what people want to believe, there's everything else, THEN there's the truth!

Good luck, Zoooma (you'll need it)

Lefty

Zoooma said...

Why do I need luck?

Anonymous said...

You need a team of shrinks and then some luck to get some sense into you.

Zoooma said...

Two questions:

1) A team of shrinks for what?

B) I have no sense?

Anonymous said...

*I* wouldn't say you have no sense.

However, you DO choose to believe the LIES...Chaney and other memebers of the U.S. government were not involved in the 9/11 attack, The U.S. wars in the middle east are not about oil (supply & price of) and defense industries/military contractors making a LOT of money, the world banking cartel isn't making a LOT, LOT, LOT of money from debt financing wars, most of the economic ELETE amassed their wealth by their honest hard work, governments (including & especially the U.S.) do not lie to their people, etc.

I guess it's easier. When I try to understand it, that's all I can come up with.

Like I said, Good luck, Zoooma (you'll need it)

Lefty

Zoooma said...

Whatever. And what's going on at Area 51, Spooky?

Zoooma said...

P.S. the whole government was involved in 9/11 thing -- Let it go, man. You're showing yourself to be a pathetic human being by believing that idiocy.

Anonymous said...

"You're showing yourself to be a pathetic human being by believing that idiocy." - DO A LITTLE RESEARCH. It could NOT possibly have happened without Chaney conducting the NORAD exercise that morning. - In your world, just a coincidence, I know. There's a LOT more - invest the time to educate yourself.

Maybe the other Anonymous was really on to something concerning those shrinks...

"Area 51, Spooky?" - Clever. Outstanding.

You steadfastly are the embodiment of evidence that there's what people want to hear, there's what people want to believe, there's everything else, THEN there's the truth!

In your case, obviously, it will take much more than luck...but, good luck, anyway.

Lefty

Zoooma said...

Hey, what's it like being in the less than 1% of Americans who know the "truth" about 9/11? You must have a very low opinion of about 300,000,000 people.

Anonymous said...

Where is this "1%" documented? (Did you go door-to-door and calculate, or just make it up?)

I realize that it is extremely difficult, actaully quite disturbing to accept that not only does the U.S. government lie to U.S. citizens, it has no problem "sacrificing" them by the thousands for "the greater good". Compounding that atrocity of course is that it is not often the greater good for MOST U.S. citizens.

Like I suggested previously, it must be easier to choose to believe the lies.

Lefty

Zoooma said...

I went door to door. It took awhile but I got 'er done.

one says one number and the other another
but they were set at the same time. Hmmm...

 
Calvin and Hobbes in the snow -- animated